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How Myths & Legends are Created.

Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:26 pm
by vince.
I`ve been talking to an old mate a lot lately & got to be thinking how such an unassuming fellow could be elevated to such a high position by collectors. Looking through some old posts, it`s not hard to see how legends can be created.

"Re: Mambri Kra Bobs
by Craig » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:09 am
Warren bought the rights to this lure from George Baker, Warren called it a Baker Kray and yours is a Kra Bob. I bet the maker of your lure also knew George. I believe George was from inland NSW.

Craig, innocently telling the story he has been told by someone he thinks knows the facts. Right or wrong at the time, Craig is just trying to help with info he believes to be true.

"Re: Mambri Kra Bobs
by samurai » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:36 pm
Hi Yekcuts, the lures you have are indeed very collectable, they are George Baker originals. They were probably made in the late 80's, I consider Mr Baker to be one of the best lure makers this Country ever produced, when you consider that this old man hand carved his lures with a knife and sand paper and painted them with spray cans.
Mr Baker stopped making lures in the early 90's due to problems with his hands.I bought the rights to many of his lures and had them moulded, the Baker Krey was named after him. Hope this helps.

Warren Nicholson, appearing to be an expert, telling his version. Not knowing the man`s name makes it hard to believe the rest. Keith, barely in his 50`s at the time(maybe some would call that an old man) didn`t call them Mambri`s till the early 90`s, he moved to Ula in 92 & it`s a fact that he didn`t call them Mambri`s before he lived in UlaMAMBRI. He painted very very few of his first lures only, with spray cans & although his hands were not great even then, he did a lot more after, & still does a few specials today.

"Re: Mambri Kra Bobs
by Bigriver » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:45 pm
I had quite few of Georges cray fish years ago, buggared if I can remember what happened to them, when you had anywhere between 1500 to 2000 lures around the house all those lures didn't mean much, I used to just give them away to who ever wanted them.

Why didn`t Kneller mention the fact that he helped Keith out in this post instead of waiting 4 years. Didn`t know his name either. Memory must have improved as Keith`s reputation grew because four years later we have this from the same man. Please keep in mind, that 4 years earlier he only mentions cray fish, no mention of these wonderful shapes.

"My first glimpse of Keith's lures was in a fellows tackle box at Windemere Dam about 18-19 years ago, the fellow (I think his last name was George?) Was a travelling rep from Dubbo and he was showing Keith's lures around too shops for him. I remember being in absolute awe of what was in that box. A famous old blues musician tells a story of when he was younger, that he was offered a lesson on playing slide guitar off an elderly blues player. The old guy had a medicine bottle that he used for slide, after listening too him play, he got up, handed him his brand new shop bought slide, turned and walked away. He was asked why he did leave? and he answered "I could not compete with that, so best to just walk away. I felt a little of that looking into the box. Keith later contacted me about making his bodies quicker, out of wood I had nothing to suggest but put him in contact with Lively Lures, that's when the fella who's name escapes me??? Bought the rights to the Baker Cray, Cheers Paul.
PS: Some of the lure shapes in that box, I kid you not! Have never been seen, ( by me at least) on any lure sites.

Nov. 2012, this makes Knellers first sighting in 93- 94, possibly right, about the only thing in this post that is. Peter George was the owner of a gunshop in Dubbo not a travelling rep, his rep(not Keith`s) was Jeff Floyd. This post is purely ego based. He couldn`t even get Jaysea right, but does remember Lively Lures, who`s only involvement was do the moulding for Nicholson. Keith claims he never knew Kneller. Somebody is telling some porky`s, wonder who.

"Re: Keith Baker Lures !!!
by samurai » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:24 pm
Having a chat with Kieth could be a bit of a problem, Frank. Reel Nut, they are indeed Keith Baker made lures and as some one who has tested a lot of Keith's lures (and owns the rights to most of his lures) I can tell you this if Keith made it, then it works.

This suggests to me that Warren Nicholson (like a lot of others that never knew Keith) thinks he is dead. Always easier to elevate the deceased.

Posted by a member on another site, thinking it was one of Keith`s,,,,”Probably now getting close to the top 6 or so collectibles - especially in brand spanking condition.
Had a little touchy feel yesterday before it was returned to the owner. At least I held it. ”

The lure in question, was not one of Keith`s, it was a moulded lure, but still posted as a genuine Keith Baker lure & no one said a word about the anomaly, but some did however, comment on it`s greatness.
No one noticed this or at least no one commented on this, but we would still make him a legend.

Why??? because popular opinion is quiet often based on bullshit created by those held in high esteem by others.

Re: How Myths & Legends are Created.

Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:50 am
by Rellik-doc-rob
Vince ,

Very well thought out , researched and written clapclap

If I could just add a couple of things.....

Nicholson holds great praise for Kieth (George )..... Yet Kieth has told me that he would not fart air Nicholsons way to save his life.
Knellar...... So he is trying to lead us to believe that his status as a lure maker back in the early 90's was so high that Kieth would call him for advice...... I doubt it. Knellar was only making lures since 92. Self elevated as an authority in such a short time.... lol lol
The story about the guitar and slide was to make us think that Knellar was in awe of Kieth talent..... But then to say that Kieth went to Knellar for help , was to make us think that Knellar was in fact the maestro !
Fabricate and twist the actual events around for their own benefit..... Next thing they will have us believe that Hitler won the war ???
The ones responsible for elevating Nicholson and Knellar ( mostly themselves ) to great hieghts will eventually look like idiots. A book with the facts... Times , dates , letters , orders , signed quotes and replies from witnesses from those times is in the making. Very hard to argue with that kind of proof. Obviously they are not the only ones that will be outed. Nobody will be spare...... As Harrow once adviced me " when you do it mate.... Do it Warts and All " .

Re: How Myths & Legends are Created.

Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 7:31 pm
by vince.
Rellik-doc-rob wrote: Yet Kieth has told me that he would not fart air Nicholsons way to save his life.
thumbsupsmilie Not the words Keith used with me to describe his feelings for that all round good guy we all know as samurai. What a slur on the Budo traditions to even use a name like that when you are as about as far from it as anyone could ever be.
Rellik-doc-rob wrote: Knellar was only making lures since 92. Self elevated as an authority in such a short time....
Exactly right thumbsupsmilie clapclap I think Paul Kneller`s ego trip in an attempt to bolster his self-doubting is abundantly clear. It`s sad really that someone that is a legend to some (don`t get me wrong, Kneller did manufacture a magnificent lure), is so insecure that he has to tell lies to make himself look credible.

Problem is, there are many more, including myself, guilty of the same sins. I am guilty of promoting lures that are far from perfect. My opinion means a lot less than someone like Frank Prokop for instance, but I did, as a mate promote BOB`S lures many years ago & since have found that many I have, don`t actually swim. I know Bob will for obvious reasons never be a legend, but none the less, I did promote his lures.

I know this hardly compares to Frank(well respected because he wrote some books & a regular column on lure collecting) who in his infinite wisdom declared the pearl Stumpie the most collectable lure in Australia. Sadly on his talk at the foundation of the doomed Kadaitcha club, I willingly believed his bullshit & did subsequently pay $1500 for a plastic Pearl Stumpie. The Kadaithca is another of his myths, as is Peter Newell. If you talk to any real cod fishermen, not collectors who say they are Cod fishermen, you will find that very, very few have ever heard of either. All a creation of someone talking bullshit to inflate their own ego & reputation.

No one wants to listen to what I have to say, probably because it offends the popular view, but if you are new to lure collecting, please think about some of the shit you have been told & about some of the experts who are now giving prices for collectables they know little about. All smoke & mirrors to promote their own importance & manipulate prices to suit themselves.

A high price doesn`t make a lure collectable, or a maker a legend, only that at least 2 people want it & are prepared to pay what they need to get it. No more or no less.